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Hello everybody and welcome to The

County Seat I'm your host Chad

Booth. There has been a lot of talk

about law enforcement in the news

but also some good news in law

enforcement that should be making

headlines the Utah Sherriff's

Association has selected a new

executive director and he is joining us

today along with the incoming

president of the Utah Sherriff's

Association we would like to

welcome a familiar name in this new

roll Sheriff Aaron Kennard who has

been the sheriff at Salt Lake County

for several years and now is taking the

executive director roll and incoming

president Steven White. Thank you

for joining us today. I do want to

start for anybody outside of Salt Lake

County probably state wide your

name in familiar Sheriff Kennard but I

would like some background on your

service for law enforcement.

Surely, I started in 1971 with the Salt

Lake City police department and I

worked my way up to Captain having

served in every division possible and

was approached by the Republican

party in 1990 to run against Pete

Hayward for Sheriff. At that time I

was the only republican that was

willing to take him on and he was a

very popular democratic incumbent

Sheriff of which I had dealt with him

many years prior to when I was the

Captain of many divisions. Bottom

line I served 20 years in the Salt Lake

City Police department I was elected

Sheriff of Salt Lake County in 1990

and served from 1991 through 2007

16 years. When I left the Sheriff's

office in 2006 in December in January

of 2007 the National Sheriff's

Association approached me and

asked if I would be interested in

serving as their executive director I

said yes I was taken back to DC an

interviewed by the Board of Directors

and they unanimously picked me to

be their Exec. Directory of National

Sheriff's Association and I served

from 2007 to 2015, 8 years as their

Exec. Director and retired just 2 years

ago.

Washington as an environment you

have been active in the Utah Sheriffs

association prior so how different

was that experience in Washington?

Let me share with you I had been

back there many times because as

you mentioned being active with the

Utah Sheriff's Association I was back

there representing us as well as the

state on many issues but to my sweet

wife it was a culture shock to say the

least and there is nothing that

happens in the entire world that is

not touched by Washington DC so in

that regard it was an honor to be

back there what I consider to be at

the time a capstone of my career

until I was selected as the Utah

Sheriff's Executive Director.

Sheriffs association has not had an

executive director for a while have

they?

It's been a while I believe 4 to 5 years

been in limbo been run by a couple of

people Gary Deland and Helen Span

they have been doing a good job but

nobody has really been the face of

the organization or the mouthpiece

other than the current president and

a few of the legislative issues being

dealt with by the respective sheriffs.

This became my capstone of my

career.

president does it make your task

easier to head up the Sheriff's

association with an executive

director?

It makes it immensely easier for me.

Especially with Aaron's experience

we got a double win with him not

only NSA but a former member of

Utah Sheriff so yes he can hit the

ground running and that is huge for

Excellent we are going to continue

our conversation we have learned a

bit about a the new executive

director we would like to spend a

little bit of time when we come back

and learn a little bit about the Utah

Sheriff's Association how it got

started what their purpose and we

will move on from there and talk

about issues that are currently facing

the Sheriff's Association and law

enforcement in Utah.

Welcome back to The County Seat we

are talking about the Utah Sheriff's

Association today and we now talked

about the exec. Director and some of

his credentials he brings to the post I

would like to start to talk about the

history of the group. The Utah

Association of Counties you have

different groups representing county

government why the Sheriff's

Association in Utah?

It's along the lines you are stronger

when you are all together you know

the association that it's better to

have all 29 voices we can chime in on

legislative issues we can chime in on

national issues and plus for jail

standards and everything else it gives

us one unified voice.

The association started and Aaron you

may want to jump in and help me on

this I think it was in 1991 is that

correct?

I was elected in 91 and took office in

91 two years later 93 we formed the

association we felt just as the sheriff

had said there needs to be a unified

organization we need to be as one

and it needs to be organized. I being

one of the ones that brought it up I

was the selected to lead it and make

it happen and I was honored to that

and we organized in 1995 officially

and became a nonprofit 501C3

organization I headed that up made

sure we got our exemption from the

IRS which was the first step and then

naturally we became incorporated

through the state of Utah and at that

time we became a fully organized

group not only with the state but the

feds.

How did it take for the Utah Sheriff's

Association to gain traction as far as

legislative issues and all of that was it

just readily recognized right off the

block or did you guys have to do a lot

of work to gain the attention and

respect of legislatures?

Well we like to think we were of

some notable power immediately

and the reason being we are elected

and the fact the Sheriffs are the only

elected law enforcement in the

country. Most of our people that are

electing us, constituents are the same

ones that elect our congressman and

that is why congress and the

legislatures up at the hill feel so

strongly and making sure that they

are in line with what the Sheriff

thinks or feels or needs because we

represent the same constituents that

the legislatures do up at the hill.

president and as a sheriff why is that

so important that law enforcement

have an elected voice?

You are direct to your public you are

a reflection of what your community

wants what it wants to hear and see.

Like I say if you are doing what your

communities want you are not going

to be reelected. So I feel much

honored that I represent my public

and my community because I am a

direct voice for them.

Do you feel that it protects tyranny

by having you accountable to the

people and not to some other

political power?

I do I very much believe that. A lot of

people have a lot of trust in the office

of the Sheriff because of that very

reason. We answer directly to them

we do not answer to anybody else.

If I could add one side line to that I'll

share with you a statistic that has

gone on forever the average term of

a police chief is 2 and half years. The

average term of its Sheriff is 12 you

tell me in common sense thinking

who can do some long range planning

and do the most good for their

community. That police chief

reports to one person and one

person only and it may be a city

council person a city manager as the

sheriff he reports to his entire county

population as he mentioned if we do

something wrong we have a chance

to make amends but we don't always

get fired that very night because we

made a mistake we have a chance to

make amends and to make it right

and to do what it right for the citizens

and they can elect and un elect us

within the next term.

I want to talk about some issue and

challenges and accomplishments of

the association we will be right back

with The County Seat.

Welcome back to The County Seat we

are talking with the new executive

director and the new incoming

president of the Utah Sheriffs

Association about issues and the

sheriffs association. Now I do want

to turn to issues and you guys have a

lot of your plate and I kind of alluded

to it at the beginning the press is kind

of had a feeding frenzy on Sheriff's

departments and jails the last few

months and just most recently a new

bill that is being proposed and I

thought we should talk about some

of those issues for a few minutes.

Let's start with Representative Rey

and the bill he is proposing tell me

the genesis of that?

The genesis of the bill is to clarify

some of the statutory obligations of

the sheriff it is my understanding

talking to a couple of the other

sheriffs is the wording has been

around since the 50's and it is to

clean some of that up and give clarity

for the Sheriff along with the county

commissioners and some of them of

what everybody's role's and

responsibilities are.

Do you think that some of the

motivation for commissioners

interjecting is public misperception of

who is going to solve what they

perceive to be a problem? I guess

what I'm trying to say is

commissioners are trying to in some

cases do what is really the

responsible voting public should do

as it is their job to deal with the

Sheriff like we talked about in the last

understands what our roles are we

have our roles under the Utah

Constitution with the jails with

enforcement and we are going to

follow that and make sure that our

jail standards are some of the best in

the nation we follow those greatly

and the thing of it is they are

voluntary. Our standards and

everything else are voluntary and we

take that on amongst ourselves to

make sure we run the safest and best

jails in the state.

of insinuation that the counties

particularly in the jails are not

functioning to par because there

have been some isolated incidents

obviously there are counties whose

names will come up immediately if

you follow this what to do you say to

that?

First of all as the Sheriff mentioned

we have some of the highest if not

the highest standards in the country

we follow them voluntarily in fact we

train inspectors to inspect it they go

out and they inspect every jail that is

part of our association. These issues

are really nothing new for us we have

been doing this since the 90's but the

rest of the country is still suffering

from not having some of these

standards.

And yet we seem to be the ones

picked on and highlighted because

there have been some isolated

incidents and some of them not really

particularly pleasant incidents.

That is partially because we are

elected officials you never very

seldom see a chief of police being

indicted or do whatever he is simply

dismissed he or she. The sheriff as

we mentioned before is elected he or

she is there and we are accountable

to the public and thus the press can

take it on and really dig deep to make

sure we are really doing what the law

says we do and that is run the jails we

are the Chief law enforcement officer

of the county and a lot of people do

not like that but lastly in Salt Lake

County with the Salt Lake C county

budget being what it was I the Sheriff

was the biggest part of that budge

and needless to say when there

needs to be budget cuts the

commissioner are going straight to

the sheriff. They use to call me and

the jail the deep dark hole and they

could always find money in the

Sheriff budge from the jail.

several shows on the County seat and

it has been an issue that is great in

concept but I do not think there is a

single sheriff that I have ever talked

to who does not agree with the

concept of it form Sheriff Perkins in

Garfield County to Sheriff Thompson

seem to agree that this is a good

direction to go what has been the

problem as it's been a real struggle.

I think funding has been a key source

I think the state put this out to

everybody and at the time they were

not able to fully fund the program. I

think there was some issues of how

the program was rolled out I know

the Sheriff's wish they rolled out

maybe a 5 county program to work

some of the kinks out and then

brought it out to everybody. You

know the sheriffs are making the

most of it they are some of the

counties that are starting to get their

programs up and going and they are

starting to see and make things work

and I think it is going to take a little

more time but I think right now

funding is the big issue.

Do you feel like a financial burden has

been shifted from state corrections

to the counties with this?

I do I think where you see the change

of the classifications to a lot of the

misdemeanors I think you are seeing

a lot more people and county jails

populations are going up due to that

classifications change I think the

probation inmates and stuff are

shifting more back to a county wide

basis and the county is going to have

the responsibility to watch those

inmates and those individuals.

contracting because some of the very

prisoners that went through state

corrections and we were contracted

or were reimbursed for condition of

Probation now are just falling as a

county inmate so

Yes, unfunded mandated from the

state.

How much of an impact will that be

unless they get the funding thing

worked out?

I have not seen the exact numbers

but I know talking to the sheriff's that

I have spoken with is that they have

seen an increase all of them have

seen an increase in their jails counts

and that kinds of things and the day

rates and what that costs to house an

inmate.

You have personal experience what is

it like in Grand County?

Grand county the last year has been

easy for me because my jail has been

closed I have been under a remodel

we were transporting inmates 2.5

hours to Emery each way an our jail

counts we were maintaining our

numbers I would say ball park

probably a a5 to 10 percent and that

is just guessing.

reimburse Emery County when you

send prisoners over to your jail.

Yes we do

So it still affects the county. With us

it affects the county's immensely we

are not only still paying those housing

costs but our transportation costs

went up through the roof because

like I say we were running 3 and 4

guys of transport at a time on a 5

hour round trip. Our gas bill was

really glad to get everybody home 2

weeks ago.

So even in the contracting and COP

world where it is still taking place and

I know people are a little bit

concerned about what the new

prison is going to do as far as that

goes are there still issues to be

resolved there.

I think so we want to be a good

partner with state corrections we

want to make sure the bed count stay

up the counties are here to help the

prisoners and I think we can do that

but I think we want to make sure that

our counties are taken care of and I

think we can do that.

I want to shift to one last thing Sheriff

Kennard, federal law enforcement.

This is an issue unique to the west.

It is indeed especially with forest

service and BLM and there has been a

problem ever since I was sheriff in

the 90's we have been dealing with

that and this was another reason why

the western sheriffs formed the

western states sheriff's association

because the eastern sheriffs have no

idea of what kind of problems we

have with the BLM and the forest

service by way of law enforcement

they seem to march to their own

drummers yet these counties and the

properties that the land it's in belong

in his county and my county and Salt

Lake county what have you and we

are still responsible for the law

enforcement on these lands.

duplicate county ordinances so that

their law enforcement has an claimed

justification to write them but now

you are in a federal magistrate and I

can tell you from person experience

that if I got a citation in grand county

I would much rather home it come

from you not that I really want one

because I could take care of it locally

before I left town instead of having to

drive all the over to St. George or to

Salt Lake or in one case I actually got

a forest service citation that if I

wanted to appear in court I would

have had to gone to Alexandria VA in

the $300 became a lot easier to pay

and I feel I did not have a chance to

represent myself so what say you to

that?

That's why we the sheriffs have been

so adamant about the BLM and forest

service working with us if we become

partners and our citizens that they

stop we have really asked them to

get the sheriff involved get his

deputies in evolved and make sure

our citizens know that we are there

to help them.

At one point some of the county

sheriffs I remember Lamont Smith

telling me he used to deputize some

of the federal officers.

Yes, I did too.

What happened to that?

Again they seem to just continue to

encroach and seem to get bigger.

I think that is where you saw former

Representative Chaffetz at the time

run the bill that he ran to eliminate

forest service and BLM law

enforcement. That bill is still ongoing

become an issue in this state

legislative session or is that

something that is not on your radar.

I don't think on the state legislative

side but I do think in the federal

legislative side that bill has been

picked up by Rep Bishop or Stuart I

can't remember which and we are

working with them now and our

federal partners are coming to the

table like I said at our conference we

have now had the director of the

BLM and the director of forest service

law enforcement sit down and want

to come to the table and meet with

us. Which is great.

My question is on a regulatory level

will that solve the problem. You

change the administration you

change.

That is one of the things I think the

sheriffs want to see as a whole and

some of the meetings I have sat in is

we would like to put a set of rules in

place rules laws whatever you want

to call it that when we are long gone

and everybody else is long gone and

depending upon the change of

administration the rules stay the

same we have some consistency of

how we are dealing with our federal

partners deal with us and that it stays

at a local levels much as possible.

That is where it should be.

Excellent we are taking a quick break

come back with final thoughts on the

County Seat and we will be right

back.

Again welcome back to The County

Seat we are talking with the

representatives of the Utah Sheriffs

Association today we had a really

good conversation anything we

missed a final thought sheriff we will

start with you.

I just hope people understand and

appreciate how much the sheriffs of

Utah do for the state of Utah. I am

much honored to be one of those

sheriffs and speaking for them they

are very proud of their state and very

proud how things are going and look

forward to continue to serve.

Sheriff Kennard it's an honor to be

representing the Utah Sheriffs

Association it is now my capstone to

my career we intend to work very

hard we meaning myself my family

the association means a great deal to

me and we will be hand and glove

with them up at the legislature

Washington wherever we need to be

to make sure we have a voice.

You think that voice is more likely to

be heard right now than perhaps it

was 2 years ago.

Well I am hoping so I believe we bring

credentials and credibility we

meaning myself and naturally the

incoming president has all the

credibility and stature that is needed

to run the organization and together I

believe we will make quite an impact

this year.

Good as issues continue to develop

please keep in touch with us.

We appreciate it.

Thank you for joining us today on The

County Seat we try and bring you this

show each week with the important

county issues always with the

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