- Hi there, this is a tale of two GTRs.
In the white corner, the Nismo
and in the green corner, the AMG.
- Hey, Jonny, I got a question.
How can two cars that are so different
end up with the exact same name?
I mean didn't Nissan copyright GTR?
- Apparently not, and I got a question.
Which one of these two track-focused monsters is the best?
- The racing line.
- Wrong show.
There's only one way to find out.
(techno music and engines)
- You know, Jonny, maybe these cars
aren't all that different after all.
- How do you mean?
- I'm thinking they've both got front engines,
they're both V-configuration, they've both got two turbos,
one's 600 horse, one's 577.
- That's the same thing.
- One's 3.8 liters, one's four liter.
There's a pattern here.
They both go to a rear transaxle that's a dual clutch.
They've both got carbon fiber wings,
they've both got exotic exhaust systems.
There's really only one thing that's all that different.
Two wheel drive, all wheel drive.
- I can think of a couple of other things,
for instance all wheel steering vs. two wheel steering,
plus a street tire vs. a race compound tire.
This car is about 200 pounds lighter than that car
and this is the size of a barn.
But you're right, they're more similar
than they are different, but my favorite similarity
is actually the names, and I'm not talking GTR,
I'm talking Godzilla vs. the Beast from the Green Hell.
These cars have nicknames because
people are passionate about them.
You don't give nicknames
to things you aren't passionate about.
No one's ever given a nickname to a Sentra,
no one's ever given a nickname to a Mercedes B Class,
but Godzilla and The Beast from Green Hell,
that's awesome, these are the cars you want to be driving.
- Yeah and they're fast cars.
- Oh yeah, on the Nuremberg ring,
seven minutes eight seconds, seven minutes 10 seconds.
- Those are amazing times, but two seconds difference
over a 13 mile road course, that's nothing.
- Right, one driver was having a bad day,
actually one driver was probably slightly
better than the other driver, there's your two seconds.
- Are we going to keep talking about driving
or are we going to actually drive these things.
- Which one do you want?
- Godzilla.
- Age before beauty.
I was pointing at the green car.
(engine revving)
(upbeat music)
(laughing)
- People knock this car these days for being old,
but man, does it move still.
- The car is so fast that it's still as fast as anything
down a windy, bumping road, you won't get any faster.
- Yeah and here's the other thing,
this car's been in production since 2009,
that AMG since 2015, so it's like
a two year old car vs. a year old car.
But I know something you don't,
which is that the body in white
of that AMG, that's the old SLS glowing
which has been in production since 2010,
they just cut 50 mm out of the wheelbase,
so really that car's seven years old,
this one's eight years old, it's a good matchup.
It's still a GTR.
- Yeah, this car's performance is in its function.
It's not a big winner in terms of its form.
- Sure, sure, sure.
But the all wheel drive, you can just blast off corners.
- Is it the best all wheel drive system
you've ever driven on a street car?
- I mean, there's like the Porsche Turbo.
- Yeah, that's good too.
- That's pretty good, but this is right there
in terms of putting the power down.
- Right there, yeah the all wheel drive system,
I'm not talking about the shift program.
- No, no, no, just putting the power down to all four wheels
always having traction, always having forward go.
- You know this car's not going to let you down.
You get in the middle of a tight corner,
in a low gear, gas it and you just know
it's going to hook up and go.
- Right, and it doesn't really matter
what the road surface is.
This thing eats up the bumps, just soups them up.
- That's part of the reason why
it's good at the Nuremberg ring.
- I think part of it, one of the changes they made
for the 2017 model year Nismo was
they stiffened the body structure.
- I can feel it, this car is solid.
- Instead of the car flexing, it lets the suspension
do all the work so the geometry stays true.
- Gives the car a feeling of quality and durability too.
- GTRs have always ridden terribly.
They were the garbage truck of super cars
in terms of ride quality, this one's actually better.
I think the seats are better, it's not as bad
of a ride as I remember in GTRs previously.
Still not great, but the result is you can go
over any kind of pavement at a million miles an hour.
- You can, that's one of the strong points of a GTR.
- I think we can say without hesitation,
this new 2017 Nismo, best GTR ever, best Nissan GTR.
- Absolutely, yep.
- But it's still got some weak points.
- Lag, Jonny.
- Yeah.
- Lag, when I drive it on the street especially.
I get into power and I can count the seconds,
the tranny doesn't downshift enough
and then it's a combination of turbo lag
and then that high RPM, the peaky power band.
- It's embarrassing, because some Nissan Rogue
is leaving you for dead off the line
and you're in Godzilla and it's not moving.
- Yeah, that CVT transmission, damn that.
- The other thing though, you mentioned the power band,
this thing makes max torque at about 3600 to 5600 RPMs.
You have this tiny little window
and then it revs quick, so you've got to be shifting.
- It's like a 125 CC motocrosser.
You row it around with the shift levers.
- I'll have to take your word for that, but yeah.
- Although I like the pedals.
- Oh the pedals are great, yeah.
But then the other problem this car has is brakes.
- I want more brakes, Jonny.
The pedal gets soft, doesn't have enough bite
for a super car in this price range.
- This is $178,000 car, this is no longer a $73,000,
entry level bargain super car.
This is playing with the big boys.
I could buy this or a Porsche Turbo S
and that Turbo S has carbon ceramics,
for $180,000, give me carbon ceramics.
(stomping away)
- But despite those negatives, it's still got it.
- Oh look, what's the car we keep referencing?
The 911 Turbo S, right, one of the greatest super cars
the world has ever seen, and maybe that's as quick
you know what I mean?
- Good point, it's been updated
three times since this came out.
- Yeah.
(engine)
- When I was at Pike's Peak, I was in a GTR
and I was racing a 911 Turbo S
and on a practice day, I was going so great
and he turned the exact same time to the tenth
three runs in a row.
- That's how good the GTR is right?
It's an amazing car, I just wish it didn't look so funny.
(rock music)
You know, I think there's a reason why
there aren't other cars that look like this GTR.
- When it came out, Jonny, people didn't
notice it because of how it looked.
What happened with the GTR was,
it was like the first real super car
of the modern era and it got a great rep.
Like we've seen today, people notice it.
- But it's still strange looking, right?
- It doesn't set any new standards
in styling, it's not shapely.
- And then, you can say okay it kind of has it's own
thing going on and then somebody got the bright idea
and said all Nissans have to look like Nissans
so they then put the corporate face and grafted it
onto the GTR and I think it lost
something in that transition, you know?
- Well this is the Nismo though,
so it's got the cool carbon fiber stuff,
the front air damn, the side skirts,
a wing that looks like a real race wing to me.
I think that wing will actually generate downforce.
- I agree, but it's just not traditionally beautiful.
You know what is?
This thing, the AMG GTR.
First of all, classic proportions,
long hood, short deck, the roof's about twice as high
as the tires, it just absolutely nails
the way a sports car is supposed to look.
Then for the GTR, what do they do different?
They made it wider, right?
The front track's wider so you flare the fenders.
They make the rear track bigger, so widen it,
it's just like oh, it looks so cool.
- And the grill, I love the grill,
it says Mercedes race car because it looks
like the Carrera Pan Americana back in 1952.
- You might like the front though,
but my favorite part is the rear.
- You like big butts and you cannot lie.
- Well I'm not going to discriminate, man, I like them all,
but my favorite rear end on a car
has long been the Porsche 928
and I think that AMG GT does it better
and now this one, it's got the vents to cool the brakes
and it's got the holes for the exhaust
and the weird quad pipes and the diffuser.
It's just ugh.
If there's any critique of the AMG though,
it's on the sills that stick out.
If they could just tuck it under like a classic,
60's sports car, even the Jaguar F Type,
just roll it under, it would be so much better,
but that's a minor point,
there's probably some aero advantage to it, but.
- Remember those posters where they had a woman's body
silhouetted and then the car would be next to it?
- Yeah.
- Now you could do that with the AMG.
I don't think you're going to see them do it with a GTR.
- Yeah, no I'd like to meet her,
but also I'd like to drive her, so come on, my turn.
- Let's go.
(uptempo drum music)
(engine)
- Listen to this thing.
(engine)
There is the difference between the two GTRs right there.
Man, I love that rumble, wow right?
- Man, it sounds like muscle.
- They call it the Beast from the Green Hell,
emphasis on Beast.
- It sounds like a beast.
- And that sound is actually tied to some power.
- The beast has the torque, doesn't it?
- Oh my God yeah, it's 516 pound feet of torque.
- Feels like more.
- Feels like more because it's available everywhere.
1900 RPM is like basically idle.
- The torque is always there.
- But, as you were pointing out,
the power builds so linearly,
so you always have this thrust, this wonderful
forward thrust but the car's getting more and more exciting
as you go faster and faster.
- Can you tell it's a turbo?
- I mean, maybe if I stopped and thought about it,
but no you can't, especially
because it sure doesn't sound like a turbo.
- When's the last time you stopped and thought
about anything when you were driving?
- I don't do that.
- That ain't going to happen.
- That's the secret to my success.
(engine)
- The power's there though, right?
- Oh, it's awesome.
- I love the instant torque, always right there.
- Shocking it's only four liters.
- Yeah, it feels like at least a liter more.
- And it's funny too, maybe because it's lighter,
but it actually does make less horsepower than the Nismo
but again, it just feels like it makes so much more.
- It's so much easier to get to the power.
It's available right now.
The Nissan, you got to be in that narrow power band.
- However, if you turn everything off in this car,
you do notice a problem with it and that is
that it's uncharacteristically hard to put the power down.
- Don't turn it off, Jonny, don't turn it off.
- I have my little switch here, I can kind of crank it down.
- Well the switch is cool, you can adjust traction control.
But you need it, you know why?
It doesn't put the power down like probably
it really ought to, like the GTS did.
- Right, the regular flavor version of this, the GTS,
which makes over 500 horsepower.
- It's a sweetheart.
- I'll never forget, you came in two years ago
at Laguna Seca and you go this things all wheel drive right?
- Yes.
- Nope, this is rear drive.
- That's when a car's hooked up.
(engine)
- This one, which has stickier tires,
not only are they Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Twos,
it's the Corvette spec, which Corvette guys
are not happy about, but it's the Corvette spec.
- And they're that wide.
- Yeah and when you're at 10 10s,
it doesn't put the power down.
- Yeah, if you ever had an issue in the AMG,
it's with the rear.
- Right, because this front is practically perfect.
In fact, this turning.
- It's got quick response, doesn't it.
- There's an elegance to it and maybe that's kind of
what's missing from the Nissan,
the Nissan can change direction like no other car
in the world, but it's not a great feel.
- Yeah, it's a little bit more numb.
Whereas this AMG GTR, you know exactly what's happening.
- Remember like old from the 70s, like Morantz stereos,
the controls, it was weighted but balanced you know.
That's this steering wheel, it's perfect.
The rear steering though, it really is noticeable
that the car can wow around a corner very, very quickly.
- It's got a lot of steering response.
The Nissan is slower responding, this thing, boom you go.
- Now, also better on this car than the Nissan
for certain, the brakes, just like wow,
this thing just stops.
I know it's helped by the tires, but also
big carbon ceramic rotors and they don't fade,
they don't fatigue, the response
of everything is just kind of up.
Again, because I'm not a professional race car driver,
I bet I'd be quicker in the GTR than I would in this car,
but I love how everything feels in this car.
The Nissan has, it's good at soaking up bumps,
but there's a numbness to the steering
and the throttle's artificial and the break is long,
it doesn't work great and this is the opposite.
The steering's incredible, the throttle perfectly linear,
you dial in 50%, you get 50% of the power.
- I love that part, Jonny.
- Brakes are perfect.
- You always know exactly the power you're going to get
because it matches what you're doing with your gas pedal.
(engine)
- But the rear end, it's flabbergasting.
How does AMG miss that?
Boy this car does everything practically perfect,
yet it'll step out under power.
- I got a guess.
This car is a lot more powerful than a GTS,
maybe they say that's just part of the power.
- So maybe in other words, because some people
make videos where they promote drifting and nonsense
over steer, they're like well when people turn
everything off, that's what they actually want.
- Maybe.
- But that can't be it, because I know the people
behind this, I know Tobias Moores,
the head of AMG and track time, track time.
- Jonny, did the GTS have rear wheel steering?
- No, that's new.
- I wonder if that's part of it.
Maybe that's not really completely sorted.
- I bet you're totally right.
- When I first drove that on Porsches I didn't like it
as much as I do now in the latest, greatest.
- It's seamless, you could drive the Turbo S
or the GT3, don't even know it's there.
- It's like you never know it's there.
In this car, you can feel that the tail is quite lively
at turning, I mean it's responsive, but.
- The other thing, since we're being
nitpicky here, not a lot of suspension travel back there.
- You're right, the GTR in the AMG version
will bottom that rear suspension.
- It's like you're running out of travel.
I don't remember the GTS doing that.
- I got a real kidney shot in that one corner with the bump.
- Yeah.
- Yeah, I didn't notice it in the Nissan.
(engine)
- Look, Godzilla has made a career
of embarrassing other super cars.
We know from the Nuremberg ring times that's a seven minute,
eight second, this is a seven minute, 10 second.
- And that's really close.
- But, those were different drivers on different days,
it might've taken place in different months,
I wonder if we had the same cars on the same day
on the same track with the same driver,
what the results would be.
- You can't help but wonder that.
- If only we knew a guy.
Oh wait, we know you.
- Oh man, I would love it.
- Okay but not just any track.
- Oh, this race track.
- Yeah man, only the best, Mazda Raceway, Laguna Seca.
Actually, the reason is, not only is it a great track,
but you have personally set the production car
lap record here several times,
I figured what better place to lap these two.
Do this, I want to ask you before you drive them,
which one of these two GTRs
do you think is going to be the quickest.
- Man, Jonny, that's a tough one.
Right off the cuff, the AMG GTR seems faster to me.
I loved the GTS two years ago,
and this car has power, aero tires, everything.
Then we compare to a Nismo GTR.
This is the best Nismo people, the best GTR.
All wheel drive, that really throws a question mark in it,
because where's all wheel drive the biggest advantage?
In a tight corner.
Well Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca has got three
real tight corners, it's going to rocket out of there.
But I don't trust the brakes on the Nissan,
they're not at this level, I'm sure of that.
I think I'm going to go AMG.
- Boy, I've just seen so many times
when the Nissan has surprised everybody and beaten them
and it shouldn't, it's gigantic and it's at this point old,
but they just keep making it better and better.
That said, when that was a GTS, it ran a 135,
it was a really quick time and now it's going from street
to cup tires, right there that's two seconds,
then the extra power, the rear steering,
the aero, I don't know.
What I do know is there's only one way to find out,
which means Randy has to get in these cars and drive them.
(engines)
- Two seconds, literally two entire seconds
over 2.21 miles, meaning that if it were a 10 lap race,
the Nismo would becoming off the corkscrew
as the AMG was apexing turn 11
and heading back onto the front straight.
That's a clear cut victory for
the Beast from the Green Hell.
As for Godzilla, the Nismo's continual improvement means
that despite its age, it's still able to hang
with the world's elite super cars.
If the Japanese GTR is being held back anywhere,
it is by the decision not to fit the car
with R Compound tires and carbon ceramic brakes.
There's your two seconds per lap
at Mazda Raceway right there.
Despite that, the big Nissan remains a lovable monster.
However, the winner of this head
to head is the AMG GT Space R.
Not only did it turn the quicker lap time
at Laguna Seca, the ninth best we've ever recorded,
but the wonderfully, grotesquely painted German
was the car both Randy and I liked the best.
It's not just the beast, it's our kind of monster.
(engine)
(car passing)
(stomping away)
(engine)
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