Hello everybody and welcome to The
County Seat I'm your host Chad
Booth. There has been a lot of talk
about law enforcement in the news
but also some good news in law
enforcement that should be making
headlines the Utah Sherriff's
Association has selected a new
executive director and he is joining us
today along with the incoming
president of the Utah Sherriff's
Association we would like to
welcome a familiar name in this new
roll Sheriff Aaron Kennard who has
been the sheriff at Salt Lake County
for several years and now is taking the
executive director roll and incoming
president Steven White. Thank you
for joining us today. I do want to
start for anybody outside of Salt Lake
County probably state wide your
name in familiar Sheriff Kennard but I
would like some background on your
service for law enforcement.
Surely, I started in 1971 with the Salt
Lake City police department and I
worked my way up to Captain having
served in every division possible and
was approached by the Republican
party in 1990 to run against Pete
Hayward for Sheriff. At that time I
was the only republican that was
willing to take him on and he was a
very popular democratic incumbent
Sheriff of which I had dealt with him
many years prior to when I was the
Captain of many divisions. Bottom
line I served 20 years in the Salt Lake
City Police department I was elected
Sheriff of Salt Lake County in 1990
and served from 1991 through 2007
16 years. When I left the Sheriff's
office in 2006 in December in January
of 2007 the National Sheriff's
Association approached me and
asked if I would be interested in
serving as their executive director I
said yes I was taken back to DC an
interviewed by the Board of Directors
and they unanimously picked me to
be their Exec. Directory of National
Sheriff's Association and I served
from 2007 to 2015, 8 years as their
Exec. Director and retired just 2 years
ago.
Washington as an environment you
have been active in the Utah Sheriffs
association prior so how different
was that experience in Washington?
Let me share with you I had been
back there many times because as
you mentioned being active with the
Utah Sheriff's Association I was back
there representing us as well as the
state on many issues but to my sweet
wife it was a culture shock to say the
least and there is nothing that
happens in the entire world that is
not touched by Washington DC so in
that regard it was an honor to be
back there what I consider to be at
the time a capstone of my career
until I was selected as the Utah
Sheriff's Executive Director.
Sheriffs association has not had an
executive director for a while have
they?
It's been a while I believe 4 to 5 years
been in limbo been run by a couple of
people Gary Deland and Helen Span
they have been doing a good job but
nobody has really been the face of
the organization or the mouthpiece
other than the current president and
a few of the legislative issues being
dealt with by the respective sheriffs.
This became my capstone of my
career.
president does it make your task
easier to head up the Sheriff's
association with an executive
director?
It makes it immensely easier for me.
Especially with Aaron's experience
we got a double win with him not
only NSA but a former member of
Utah Sheriff so yes he can hit the
ground running and that is huge for
Excellent we are going to continue
our conversation we have learned a
bit about a the new executive
director we would like to spend a
little bit of time when we come back
and learn a little bit about the Utah
Sheriff's Association how it got
started what their purpose and we
will move on from there and talk
about issues that are currently facing
the Sheriff's Association and law
enforcement in Utah.
Welcome back to The County Seat we
are talking about the Utah Sheriff's
Association today and we now talked
about the exec. Director and some of
his credentials he brings to the post I
would like to start to talk about the
history of the group. The Utah
Association of Counties you have
different groups representing county
government why the Sheriff's
Association in Utah?
It's along the lines you are stronger
when you are all together you know
the association that it's better to
have all 29 voices we can chime in on
legislative issues we can chime in on
national issues and plus for jail
standards and everything else it gives
us one unified voice.
The association started and Aaron you
may want to jump in and help me on
this I think it was in 1991 is that
correct?
I was elected in 91 and took office in
91 two years later 93 we formed the
association we felt just as the sheriff
had said there needs to be a unified
organization we need to be as one
and it needs to be organized. I being
one of the ones that brought it up I
was the selected to lead it and make
it happen and I was honored to that
and we organized in 1995 officially
and became a nonprofit 501C3
organization I headed that up made
sure we got our exemption from the
IRS which was the first step and then
naturally we became incorporated
through the state of Utah and at that
time we became a fully organized
group not only with the state but the
feds.
How did it take for the Utah Sheriff's
Association to gain traction as far as
legislative issues and all of that was it
just readily recognized right off the
block or did you guys have to do a lot
of work to gain the attention and
respect of legislatures?
Well we like to think we were of
some notable power immediately
and the reason being we are elected
and the fact the Sheriffs are the only
elected law enforcement in the
country. Most of our people that are
electing us, constituents are the same
ones that elect our congressman and
that is why congress and the
legislatures up at the hill feel so
strongly and making sure that they
are in line with what the Sheriff
thinks or feels or needs because we
represent the same constituents that
the legislatures do up at the hill.
president and as a sheriff why is that
so important that law enforcement
have an elected voice?
You are direct to your public you are
a reflection of what your community
wants what it wants to hear and see.
Like I say if you are doing what your
communities want you are not going
to be reelected. So I feel much
honored that I represent my public
and my community because I am a
direct voice for them.
Do you feel that it protects tyranny
by having you accountable to the
people and not to some other
political power?
I do I very much believe that. A lot of
people have a lot of trust in the office
of the Sheriff because of that very
reason. We answer directly to them
we do not answer to anybody else.
If I could add one side line to that I'll
share with you a statistic that has
gone on forever the average term of
a police chief is 2 and half years. The
average term of its Sheriff is 12 you
tell me in common sense thinking
who can do some long range planning
and do the most good for their
community. That police chief
reports to one person and one
person only and it may be a city
council person a city manager as the
sheriff he reports to his entire county
population as he mentioned if we do
something wrong we have a chance
to make amends but we don't always
get fired that very night because we
made a mistake we have a chance to
make amends and to make it right
and to do what it right for the citizens
and they can elect and un elect us
within the next term.
I want to talk about some issue and
challenges and accomplishments of
the association we will be right back
with The County Seat.
Welcome back to The County Seat we
are talking with the new executive
director and the new incoming
president of the Utah Sheriffs
Association about issues and the
sheriffs association. Now I do want
to turn to issues and you guys have a
lot of your plate and I kind of alluded
to it at the beginning the press is kind
of had a feeding frenzy on Sheriff's
departments and jails the last few
months and just most recently a new
bill that is being proposed and I
thought we should talk about some
of those issues for a few minutes.
Let's start with Representative Rey
and the bill he is proposing tell me
the genesis of that?
The genesis of the bill is to clarify
some of the statutory obligations of
the sheriff it is my understanding
talking to a couple of the other
sheriffs is the wording has been
around since the 50's and it is to
clean some of that up and give clarity
for the Sheriff along with the county
commissioners and some of them of
what everybody's role's and
responsibilities are.
Do you think that some of the
motivation for commissioners
interjecting is public misperception of
who is going to solve what they
perceive to be a problem? I guess
what I'm trying to say is
commissioners are trying to in some
cases do what is really the
responsible voting public should do
as it is their job to deal with the
Sheriff like we talked about in the last
understands what our roles are we
have our roles under the Utah
Constitution with the jails with
enforcement and we are going to
follow that and make sure that our
jail standards are some of the best in
the nation we follow those greatly
and the thing of it is they are
voluntary. Our standards and
everything else are voluntary and we
take that on amongst ourselves to
make sure we run the safest and best
jails in the state.
of insinuation that the counties
particularly in the jails are not
functioning to par because there
have been some isolated incidents
obviously there are counties whose
names will come up immediately if
you follow this what to do you say to
that?
First of all as the Sheriff mentioned
we have some of the highest if not
the highest standards in the country
we follow them voluntarily in fact we
train inspectors to inspect it they go
out and they inspect every jail that is
part of our association. These issues
are really nothing new for us we have
been doing this since the 90's but the
rest of the country is still suffering
from not having some of these
standards.
And yet we seem to be the ones
picked on and highlighted because
there have been some isolated
incidents and some of them not really
particularly pleasant incidents.
That is partially because we are
elected officials you never very
seldom see a chief of police being
indicted or do whatever he is simply
dismissed he or she. The sheriff as
we mentioned before is elected he or
she is there and we are accountable
to the public and thus the press can
take it on and really dig deep to make
sure we are really doing what the law
says we do and that is run the jails we
are the Chief law enforcement officer
of the county and a lot of people do
not like that but lastly in Salt Lake
County with the Salt Lake C county
budget being what it was I the Sheriff
was the biggest part of that budge
and needless to say when there
needs to be budget cuts the
commissioner are going straight to
the sheriff. They use to call me and
the jail the deep dark hole and they
could always find money in the
Sheriff budge from the jail.
several shows on the County seat and
it has been an issue that is great in
concept but I do not think there is a
single sheriff that I have ever talked
to who does not agree with the
concept of it form Sheriff Perkins in
Garfield County to Sheriff Thompson
seem to agree that this is a good
direction to go what has been the
problem as it's been a real struggle.
I think funding has been a key source
I think the state put this out to
everybody and at the time they were
not able to fully fund the program. I
think there was some issues of how
the program was rolled out I know
the Sheriff's wish they rolled out
maybe a 5 county program to work
some of the kinks out and then
brought it out to everybody. You
know the sheriffs are making the
most of it they are some of the
counties that are starting to get their
programs up and going and they are
starting to see and make things work
and I think it is going to take a little
more time but I think right now
funding is the big issue.
Do you feel like a financial burden has
been shifted from state corrections
to the counties with this?
I do I think where you see the change
of the classifications to a lot of the
misdemeanors I think you are seeing
a lot more people and county jails
populations are going up due to that
classifications change I think the
probation inmates and stuff are
shifting more back to a county wide
basis and the county is going to have
the responsibility to watch those
inmates and those individuals.
contracting because some of the very
prisoners that went through state
corrections and we were contracted
or were reimbursed for condition of
Probation now are just falling as a
county inmate so
Yes, unfunded mandated from the
state.
How much of an impact will that be
unless they get the funding thing
worked out?
I have not seen the exact numbers
but I know talking to the sheriff's that
I have spoken with is that they have
seen an increase all of them have
seen an increase in their jails counts
and that kinds of things and the day
rates and what that costs to house an
inmate.
You have personal experience what is
it like in Grand County?
Grand county the last year has been
easy for me because my jail has been
closed I have been under a remodel
we were transporting inmates 2.5
hours to Emery each way an our jail
counts we were maintaining our
numbers I would say ball park
probably a a5 to 10 percent and that
is just guessing.
reimburse Emery County when you
send prisoners over to your jail.
Yes we do
So it still affects the county. With us
it affects the county's immensely we
are not only still paying those housing
costs but our transportation costs
went up through the roof because
like I say we were running 3 and 4
guys of transport at a time on a 5
hour round trip. Our gas bill was
really glad to get everybody home 2
weeks ago.
So even in the contracting and COP
world where it is still taking place and
I know people are a little bit
concerned about what the new
prison is going to do as far as that
goes are there still issues to be
resolved there.
I think so we want to be a good
partner with state corrections we
want to make sure the bed count stay
up the counties are here to help the
prisoners and I think we can do that
but I think we want to make sure that
our counties are taken care of and I
think we can do that.
I want to shift to one last thing Sheriff
Kennard, federal law enforcement.
This is an issue unique to the west.
It is indeed especially with forest
service and BLM and there has been a
problem ever since I was sheriff in
the 90's we have been dealing with
that and this was another reason why
the western sheriffs formed the
western states sheriff's association
because the eastern sheriffs have no
idea of what kind of problems we
have with the BLM and the forest
service by way of law enforcement
they seem to march to their own
drummers yet these counties and the
properties that the land it's in belong
in his county and my county and Salt
Lake county what have you and we
are still responsible for the law
enforcement on these lands.
duplicate county ordinances so that
their law enforcement has an claimed
justification to write them but now
you are in a federal magistrate and I
can tell you from person experience
that if I got a citation in grand county
I would much rather home it come
from you not that I really want one
because I could take care of it locally
before I left town instead of having to
drive all the over to St. George or to
Salt Lake or in one case I actually got
a forest service citation that if I
wanted to appear in court I would
have had to gone to Alexandria VA in
the $300 became a lot easier to pay
and I feel I did not have a chance to
represent myself so what say you to
that?
That's why we the sheriffs have been
so adamant about the BLM and forest
service working with us if we become
partners and our citizens that they
stop we have really asked them to
get the sheriff involved get his
deputies in evolved and make sure
our citizens know that we are there
to help them.
At one point some of the county
sheriffs I remember Lamont Smith
telling me he used to deputize some
of the federal officers.
Yes, I did too.
What happened to that?
Again they seem to just continue to
encroach and seem to get bigger.
I think that is where you saw former
Representative Chaffetz at the time
run the bill that he ran to eliminate
forest service and BLM law
enforcement. That bill is still ongoing
become an issue in this state
legislative session or is that
something that is not on your radar.
I don't think on the state legislative
side but I do think in the federal
legislative side that bill has been
picked up by Rep Bishop or Stuart I
can't remember which and we are
working with them now and our
federal partners are coming to the
table like I said at our conference we
have now had the director of the
BLM and the director of forest service
law enforcement sit down and want
to come to the table and meet with
us. Which is great.
My question is on a regulatory level
will that solve the problem. You
change the administration you
change.
That is one of the things I think the
sheriffs want to see as a whole and
some of the meetings I have sat in is
we would like to put a set of rules in
place rules laws whatever you want
to call it that when we are long gone
and everybody else is long gone and
depending upon the change of
administration the rules stay the
same we have some consistency of
how we are dealing with our federal
partners deal with us and that it stays
at a local levels much as possible.
That is where it should be.
Excellent we are taking a quick break
come back with final thoughts on the
County Seat and we will be right
back.
Again welcome back to The County
Seat we are talking with the
representatives of the Utah Sheriffs
Association today we had a really
good conversation anything we
missed a final thought sheriff we will
start with you.
I just hope people understand and
appreciate how much the sheriffs of
Utah do for the state of Utah. I am
much honored to be one of those
sheriffs and speaking for them they
are very proud of their state and very
proud how things are going and look
forward to continue to serve.
Sheriff Kennard it's an honor to be
representing the Utah Sheriffs
Association it is now my capstone to
my career we intend to work very
hard we meaning myself my family
the association means a great deal to
me and we will be hand and glove
with them up at the legislature
Washington wherever we need to be
to make sure we have a voice.
You think that voice is more likely to
be heard right now than perhaps it
was 2 years ago.
Well I am hoping so I believe we bring
credentials and credibility we
meaning myself and naturally the
incoming president has all the
credibility and stature that is needed
to run the organization and together I
believe we will make quite an impact
this year.
Good as issues continue to develop
please keep in touch with us.
We appreciate it.
Thank you for joining us today on The
County Seat we try and bring you this
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